I know this is lazy of me, but I do not have the time to post a proper analysis of this yet. However, you need somewhere to discuss this without being labeled as “ABCers” or “UNC Blinders Wearing Homers With Your Head In The Sand”.

ESPN write up is here.

CBSSports.com is here.

Yahoo Sports is here.

21 thoughts on “L.O.I.C.”

  1. Today will live on forever as an NCST holiday; it’s too bad that the punishments will never come close to what Statefan thinks they should be. In the end it’ll just be another brick Statefan uses to build their house of martyrdom.

  2. What do you think the punishments should be, pat?

    …we all only have 9 more months of speculation, rumors and “source” talk before we know.

    I think unx will offer up 1 year post-season bans in Football and WBB. There’s no way in hell the self sacrifice ANYTHING in MBB except for maybe a meaningless probationary period of time. MBB is of course the Golden Goose they have spent 10’s of millions of $’s on to protect.

    I don’t know what the NCAA will do but you can bet unxfan will cry and shout for years that it was all the work of Evil Mary Willingham who “cheated on her thesis!”, Dirty Dan Kane and the “bias” N&O who “exaggerated faulty information!”, all the countless “rogues” that “did it all themselves!”, and of course the big bad NCAA that was “just looking to make an example out of someone” because we all know “everybody cheats!”….


  3. Tacos, I agree with everything you say in your first three paragraphs except for the postseason ban in Football and the “10’s of millions of $’s” part–I’d like to see an accounting on that one. I frankly don’t think that there is anything for UNC to protect in MBB.
    As far as your last paragraph, totally disagree–at least for myself. UNC had some bad academic crap going on that never should have started, but once started, the academic side should have monitored things a lot more closely and stopped them. That some athletic academic advisors glommed onto it is no surprise, I think, to anybody. Nor is it a surprise that the students at large didn’t sniff out some totally crip courses and take them. But I don’t blame Kane or Willingham for pointing out that things were going on–I do blame them for their over the top exaggerations of just what those things were and who was involved.
    So, we’ll see what punishments are handed out.

  4. hilarious that UNC’s first action after being hit with ‘Lack of Instutional Control’ allegations….. is to sign Roy Williams to a contract extension.

    ostrich, meet sand.

  5. ^and helps to prove my point on MBB.

    The program was fully involved in the scheme and took advantage for decades. It’s obvious they would rather bury their academic souls to admit any wrongdoing worthy of ANY type of punishment for unx roundball.

  6. OK, tacos, here we go…where’s your proof besides your buttload of want.
    Now here’s the thing UNC is going to have to navigate, getting the BOG to approve the contract. That happens, then Roy is golden. Don’t you think?

  7. From the NOA itself…

    “The AFRI/AFAM department created anomalous courses that

    May 20, 2015
    Page No. 49
    went unchecked for 18 years. This allowed individuals within ASPSA to use these courses through special arrangements to maintain the eligibility of academically at-risk student-athletes, particularly in the sports of football, MEN’S BASKETBALL and women’s basketball. Although the general student body also had access to the anomalous AFRI/AFAM courses, student-athletes received preferential access to these anomalous courses, enrolled in these anomalous courses at a disproportionate rate to that of the general student body and received other impermissible benefits not available to the general student body in connection with these courses.”

    …it happened, brah. Time to except reality.

    Like I said before, who knows what the NCAA will do. But MBB was found in guilt and we know that even after a week and a half of redactions of names, dates, etc. that unx didn’t want us to see. Then the first thing the school you pull for does is, is give Mr. “I Know Everything(2012)/I know nothing(2014)” a raise for basically playing the fool in all this so recruiting doesn’t completely go into the shitter the next few years.

    It’s all PR but that doesn’t make it any less shameful.

  8. Tacos, brah, time for YOU to accept reality. You guys are never going to get what you want. Ever. The Wolp!Fack! patron saint of journalism, Dan Kane, dropped this gem yesterday


    Let me hit the highlights for you, since you’re probably too stoned to read right now:

    The NCAA relied almost entirely on UNC’s previous investigations to prepare their NOA (this means that y’all are going to have to stop with this “if UNC would just admit to what they did we could all move on” bullshit now; UNC admitted it, y’all just don’t like that it doesn’t include what you “know” to be true)

    Wainstein’s report cited improper activity as far back as 1993, but the NCAA’s report begins with the fall of 2002 through the summer of 2011

    Wainstein found 329 students would have had a GPA below a 2.0 for at least one semester were it not for paper classes. More than half were athletes. There is no such analysis in the NCAA’s report

    Wainstein found that Debby Crowder, the architect of the paper classes, began disguising them as lecture-style in 1999 to help athletes and other students get around what was believed to be a limit on the number of independent studies one could use toward a degree. The NCAA doesn’t report a problem with those limits until the fall of 2006

    Wainstein found numerous examples of papers submitted by athletes and other students that were heavily plagiarized. The report does not cite any athletes for academic misconduct over plagiarized papers

    Shortly after Wainstein’s report, the NCAA received evidence that a football player was admitted into graduate school after the start of the 2003-04 academic year despite having no graduate exam and a low GPA. He skipped classes, exams and assignments and flunked out in one semester, but played nearly all the football games that season. The case draws no mention in the report

    There have been twelve other schools charged with LOIC by the NCAA since 1993. None have gotten the death penalty.


    Banners aren’t going to drop in men’s basketball. I know you hate it more than you can even articulate, but Roy is clean. UNC admitted to everything, even more than the NCAA obviously cares about. Those things that you think you know for fact you don’t actually know. Sorry, bubba.

  9. You always respond to my posts as if you wish you were on PP, pat.

    The NCAA named MBB in the NOA. They participated in academic cheating to keep BASKETBALL PLAYERS eligible for years.

    I know you guys have tried to your best to use unx’ PR spin to deny this obvious fact for years but it is now time to just accept it.

    It has been spelled out right in front of your eyes. MBB cheated and now they award the man who is supposed to be the head of the program a raise and extension. The Carolina Way still lives.

    Whatever the COI decides to do, no matter how light or heavy, will never erase the fact that unx was systematically cheating and took numerous steps over the course of these 5 years to try and create a narrative to downplay it all.

    If after all these years your argument is now reduced to, “Sure, we cheated but we are not going to get punished as bad as you want us too!”, then that is absolutely fine by me.

  10. No, Tacos, UNC used the AFAM department to keep at-risk students on course to get diplomas and keep their graduation rates up for years. And athletes also benefited from it.

    What is also right in front of your eyes, what you refuse to admit, is that Roy Williams moved his players away from AFAM long before any of this came to light. He cleaned his end up, and the NOA, specifically it’s lack of anything damning about Roy, backs this up. Roy’s contract extension underscores this.

    “If after all these years your argument is now reduced to, “Sure, we cheated but we are not going to get punished as bad as you want us too!”, then that is absolutely fine by me.”

    Funny, but that’s what I’ve been saying for a while now. A good while. And it’s painfully obvious that it’s not fine by you. You still really want us to say “you were right, Tacos”; which we won’t because you weren’t. And that makes me look at you and point and laugh like Nelson Muntz.

    Honestly not sure what you’re getting with the PP thing, though. I’ve stopped lurking there because the racism and bigotry finally wore me out completely. I don’t even care about the idiocy I’m missing out on re: their inane slants on the sporting world.

  11. ^LOL…Well you must have an active imagination, GP.

    “UNC used the AFAM department to keep at-risk students on course to get diplomas and keep their graduation rates up for years. And athletes also benefited from it.”

    LOLOLOLOLOL…dude, read the direct quote I pulled from the NOA. It annihilates your above quote. You can’t run with that garbage anymore and you know it.

    When it comes to Roy, it doesn’t matter in the long run what he knew/didn’t know/didn’t want to know/knew;but lied/etc. He is the face of the program and literally went with the line that he was ignorant of any wrong doing (except that he didn’t because he saw a problem with AFAM and got his players out?…yeah that still doesn’t make any sense).

    Now the guy who is supposed to be responsible for overseeing his players education, you know, the speech he gives all his player’s families, apparently screws that up for the entire time he has been at unx, gets a contract extension…yeah taking real responsibility there, unx…

    Really though, pat, what do you think the COI will do?

  12. They left enough gray area that the penalties could be almost anything or almost nothing.

    I wouldn’t be sure that the banners are absolutely safe, and I wouldn’t be sure that they are coming down.

    It could go either way.

    UNC’s biggest issue is that the NCAA may feel it needs to come down hard to prove that it still has a place in today’s college athletic world.

    Roy moving his players from AFAM is, in reality, a strike against him. He said at the time that he noticed he had too many players in that major so he dispersed them. Then, later, he said he didn’t keep up with what classes his players were taking when asked about McCants’ comments.

    Of course, no UNC fan will ever mention the fact that he said two things that are 100% opposites.

  13. “You say we either did something, or we didn’t do something. Maybe guys, girls, just decided not to take certain classes.”

    -Ol’ Roy

    …but wait, I thought it was Roy who…”moved his players away from AFAM long before any of this came to light. He cleaned his end up”…


  14. dan, never thought I’d agree with you but I think you’re absolutely right about how the penalties could shake out.
    John Saunders had a very good commentary on Roy’s contract extension and I agree with him, and have said before, this scandal is colossal but it is mostly an academic scandal. There were some named people on the Athletics side that is going to be costly, I think, for some programs.
    As I always say, we’ll see how things shake out but I’ll continue to be entertained by the exploding heads here and on other sites.

  15. The emails between Wayne Walden and Debbie Crowder are more than enough to warrant punishment for men’s basketball if the NCAA decides that is something they want to do.

    They really have all options open for a number of different sports.

    I’m not going to get too bent out of shape about it either way, because it’s not like the NCAA has any consistency at all when it comes to these situations.

    Trying to paint this as an academic scandal that was infiltrated by athletics takes a leap of logic that only the bluest of UNC fans would make. In reality, it is a system devised to prop up athletics that was infiltrated by normal students.

    Also, don’t believe all the percentages because UNC used a little creative accounting.

    If Vince Carter was in one of these summer classes, but it was after his eligibility had ended, he would have been considered a non-athlete in UNC’s methodology.

  16. I thought this was a post about FIFA. My bad.

    “It could go either way.”

    That is the only rational comment out of all of this. I’m not going to jump into the speculation game, nobody has a clue what the NCAA is going to do, even the writers in the stories Mike linked. Im not going to lose any sleep over whatever punishment UNC gets. It is not going to be until probably next spring until we find out anyway. Until then, the arguments are pointless to me.

    tacos, (some) statefans still cry to this day about how the evil, big bad local media treated Valvano, so to say that (some) uncfans will cry about Kane and the N&O….duh, no sheeeet! Guess it all balances out, people dont like and/or blame the media when something like this happens.

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