UNC impressive win in Belk Bowl….then the rumors start.

After a 1-5 start, North Carolina completed their season turnaround with an impressive 39-17 win in the Belk Bowl over Cincinnati. It was the Tar Heels first bowl win in Charlotte after three previous losses.

In the third quarter, freshman Ryan Switzer tied an NCAA record with his fifth punt return for a touchdown for the season. He set an UNC and ACC record with the touchdown.  He was named the MVP of the game.

 

Then after the game, ESPN’s Rodney Gilmore tweeted out this little nugget.

https://twitter.com/RodGilmore/status/417057708299517952

They have a history of grabbing football coaches from North Carolina. Stay tuned.

103 thoughts on “UNC impressive win in Belk Bowl….then the rumors start.

  1. I care. I went to THF and dropped some comments. I believe I was told to go clean my barn or something.

    UNC is going to be in a world of hurt if they don’t change how they are handling things. It usually isn’t a good idea to call people liars about things that, um, you yourself are lying about.

  2. I know you care, Champs. Do you want to know how I know? I’ll tell you regardless: YOUR AVATAR IS NCST’S LOGO.

    GTFOH with the easy ones.

  3. Pat, I care because I care about the ACC as a whole. I’m not someone who pulls for UNC to lose just because I dislike them and they are our rivals. If they are facing an OOC team, I want them to handle things. Same with Duke and every other ACC team that is not from the State of Maryland.

    I always find it humorous that just seeing my avatar is enough to make people think I’m anti-UNC and want them to burn to the ground. The facts are the facts, and just because I bring them to you does not make them any less full of truthyness.

  4. Champs, if I had a UNC avatar and was commenting on SFN, I would be told to get the hell out, and Im a UNC_CHeater, blah, blah… In fact, my comment wouldn’t probably even make it past the admin.

    Even though I dont consider myself an anti-NCSU person.

  5. Blah blah blah, Champs. My point stands. The only people who give a shit are NCST fans. You’re an NCST fan. Nobody said you hate UNC or want it burned to the ground. I said the only people who care about this shit anymore are you NCST fans. Period. I never said why you care, or assigned motivations to anyone for that matter. Just that the only people who keep talking about it and complaining about it are NCST fans. And you NCST fans keep proving my point for me repeatedly.

  6. Pat, CNN, Bloomsberg, and the NY Times would all disagree with you, as all three have published stories in the past week or so on UNC academics. You should care. You should want better

    Nino, you are right. They are lunatic fringe though. You ever see me post there? Nope. Is THF lunatic fringe now? If you posted on BTP I think your words would be looked at more than your avatar. Just saying. I think that some people just don’t want to hear the truth, and especially not from some stupid farmer. :P

  7. THF has pretty much always been Lunatic Fringe.

    Yes, Champs. News channels are carrying stories. But nobody cares/is talking about them EXCEPT State fans. What does that tell you?

    I’ve been pretty consistent for quite some time saying I do care and do want better, but I don’t take giddy pleasure in constantly bringing it up.

  8. lol…Ley.

    …and I don’t expect much from ESPN and the Tarhole of the year, John Skipper, but they are talking about it.

  9. And then the talking stopped…

    Look, I know you guys want this to be “Jimmy V part duex”, but it’s simply not going to happen. All you guys, and most of you bitter State fans in general, care about are banners coming down. Not people going to jail for fraud, not accreditation being revoked, nothing but banners coming down. That tells the rest of us how much you REALLY care. Suck it up, Nancys; nobody takes y’all very seriously. I mean, look at how big a deal this is to the rest of the nation. They don’t care, it’s worth fifteen minutes out of their entire year. BFD (I’m not referencing Butch, either).

  10. Pat, you have no idea what I want. I could not care less about banners coming down. I care about the truth coming out. Nothing more. Nothing less.

  11. I’m speaking in generalities, Champs. Congrats on your morals or whatever.

    Here are my questions to you, then: how do you know when the truth has all come out? How do you know when your thirst for justice has been sated?

    They’re both rhetorical, by the way.

  12. lol pat…Colbert just had a segment on the UNX scandal. What world are you living in where the nation hasn’t taken notice?

  13. Fuck, fT. Follow me closely here because it’s obvious you aren’t getting it: after the five minute spot on ESPN or Comedy Central or CNN or whatever damn station you want to cite, how many people on the street, in your office (or ski lift or whatever, hippie), in bars, in coffee shops, on facebook or twitter, wherever that isn’t that very brief news piece is, how many regular American people who aren’t State or UNC fans do you hear having conversations about it? How many articles have you seen in Alaskan or Iowan papers about it? How many editorials? People, regular people not in the Triangle or anyone who isn’t an NCST fan, simply don’t give a shit. People. Are. Not. Talking. About. It. There is one other UNC fan in my office. He and I talk about it. But nobody else in the building gives a damn. And the majority ARE sports fans. It’s the same at local bars. People, except for State fans, just aren’t talking about it. Because they don’t care.

  14. Yep, it’s national news because it is a giant fucking problem. The biggest part of the problem? APATHY.

    But keep on telling yourself that people care.

  15. Yeah I guess Brian stopped paying the bills for the banner?

    pat, you’re argument makes no sense. The national news is pointing out that the only apathetic parties to UNX’ cheating is UNX and the NCAA. That’s why it’s in the news.

    I mean what are you saying? It hit the national news because know one wants to know or discuss the UNX scandal? How does that work? First you think it’s just PP acting crazy and now that they have been proved to be right again, you think they’re crazy because people in Alaska aren’t talking about it on their lunch breaks. Get real guy.

    Believe me other schools and fans of those schools are paying close attention how this will end up.

  16. The banner changed when someone updated wordpress or the theme. Brian has the database on lockdown and despite my attempts to get him to move the site to my own host he keeps it at THF. I’m happy to pay for the hosting even though we don’t use the site all that much. Whateves.

  17. I suggest, and am oh so down to participate in, openly declaring war on THF, Champs.

    fT, there are stories all of the time on national, and international, news networks that people don’t care about. People are just as apathetic to this issue as they are to, say, building collapses in Indian. It’s shocking at first but you don’t give a shit five minutes later.

    And, looky here, it might not be what Mary Willingham says it is. She used a test, The Scholastic Abilities Test For Adults, that is a “10-minute reading vocabulary test THAT IS NOT (emphasis mine) recommended alone to judge overall literacy”. She also misrepresented the data by presenting standard scores as grade equivalents.

    The test she used to make her determinations is a ten minute long multiple choice test where each question has 4 words and the test taker has to decide whether some of the words are synonyms, antonyms, or unrelated. THERE WERE NO READING COMPREHENSION PASSAGES.

    Furthermore, her research was halted because she intially told the board that approved her research that the study’s participants’ identities wouldn’t be know by the researchers. The IRB stepped in this week when it became clear that Willingham collected and retained data tied to the sunbjects’ identities, a nearly unprecedented breach of ethics on Willingham’s part.

    “If I were Mary, I would not have gone to CNN”
    -Richard Southall, one of Willingham’s collaborator’s on the research

    But, you know, whatever…

  18. Lol…Ol Mary isn’t an idiot. Do you think she’d really go public with all this if she felt she couldn’t defend the data 100%?

    The more UNX the more the likes of CNN will fire back and keep this story alive.

    Defend…deflect…deny…

  19. Yeah, fT, it’s blatantly obvious how much you care about the truth. Her own colleague ON THE STUDY said she shouldn’t have gone to CNN with it. It doesn’t matter what the truth is, the only thing people like you will be happy with is UNC saying they are the biggest cheaters ever and apologizing for Jimmy V. Damn the actual facts, just shut down the athletics program.

  20. Yes, yes…and UNX has been the bastion of truth in all this obviously…

    It’s not like the data is the real issue. 200 fake classes. 500 unauthorized grade changes. Rampant cheating.

  21. Defend…Deflect…Deny…

    …you have been saying the same thing for almost three years.

  22. Yep. Talking to you and those like you about this is pointless. You’ve made up your mind and the only ‘facts’ you’ll accept are the ones that support your narrative. People like you are the reason nobody but people like you give a shit about this anymore.

  23. You’re right, fT. Those points about Willingham and her study have absolutely no relevance or validity at all.

    This goes directly to the point I’ve been making for the last two years: you people (thanks CDC) will NEVER be satisfied. It doesn’t matter how much comes out you will never believe that’s all of it. Ever. Fuck it. Fuck UNC. Burn it to the ground.

  24. That’s because more and more comes out, bro. It hasn’t ended. Why would anyone think after 2.5 years that THAT is the bottom of the hole?

    You’ve taken UNX’ word on everything. It’s true I have my biases like everyone else but every time UNX has said “It’s all under control, nothing to see here”, it hasn’t been the case. How can you still be saying the same thing after all this?

    Willingham tried to get UNX to act MONTHS ago through emails to the right people and when she realized that they weren’t going to do shit, she went public.

    I mean, if a UNX admin representative said that evolution was false, you would turn into a creationist.

    Look it was cute and understandable like idk, a couple of years ago, to be acting this naive but it’s time to grow up and admit that UNX will say or do anything to protect the brand.

    It doesn’t matter in the long run though. It’s all been proven a sham and that just straight burns you up.

  25. You obviously missed the point entirely. Richard Southall was one of Willingham’s main collaborators on the study, not a UNC shill. The Independent Review Board that halted her study because of her egregious breach of ethics weren’t UNC board members. But I guess they’re part of the conspiracy. Again, this is pointless; you’ve already decided and no matter what actual facts come out, or where they come from, your mind won’t change. All you will be happy with is UNC saying ‘yes we did it’ anytime anything negative comes out, regardless if it’s true or not. That’s not wanting it all exposed, it’s wanting UNC squashed out of pettiness.

  26. LOL…you’re hopeless.

    Please say nothing else will happen and that UNX is in the clear…PLEASE!

  27. Yeah, completely.

    So, anyway. How’s that basketball team over in Raleigh doing? Coach Gott working out so far?

  28. It’s never the wrong time for a Heel fan to talk basketball smack. Even if we do suck, which we do, we’re still better than State.

  29. Holy shit, people cared so much about those news bits that they’re STILL talking abo… wait, what? Nobody is talking about it again? Oh, my bad. Never mind.

  30. I will. I’m not wrong. I’m going to continue to point out to you the fact that nobody cares about this outside of this part of the state until it’s no longer true.

  31. It’s hilarious that you’ve gone from defending UNX in all of this mess over the years to simply just trying to diminish the story of their cheating ways based on how many people you think care, especially right after it gets picked up in the national media. Where was this argument when for three years it was really just the N&O and Dan Kane covering the story?

    It’s irrelevant how many people you think outside the state say or talk about it anyway. The news covering this story isn’t going away any time soon.

  32. It’s hilarious that you haven’t paid any attention to what I’ve said about this over the last few years. And that you think I’m trying to diminish the story. I have never said that I don’t care about it, just that nobody who is not a State fan or who is not in our little corner of the State cares about it anymore. And that has been borne out by the facts. I’m sorry you don’t like it but that’s on you, not me.

    The news has died down to a very small whisper even since THIS particular debate between the two of us started. I think that you’re confusing you going out and actively searching for news stories with regular people happening to catch them briefly on the TV or interwebs or whatever.

    The bottom line is that, regardless of the way you attempt to portray it, I’m not defending what UNC has done. I think it’s wrong and that they should (and have) been punished for it. I fully realize the real beef between you and I here is that you don’t think they’ve been punished enough. However, I don’t agree that UNC should simply say “yeah, we did that” every time someone accuses them of something related to this (unlike, oh I don’t know, you). If Mary Willingham’s study was as flawed and unethical as it is now appearing to be then it has no business in this discussion and should discredited. You, on the other hand, think that “UNC is just a bunch of liars and until it’s proven that they’re telling the truth I’m going to assume everything they say is a lie and perpetuated purely out of self-preservation”. That’s a horse shit way to go about this whole thing and the only reason you are going about it that way is because you’re a bitter State fan.

    The truth is people don’t care about this that much because it’s way, way more prevalent than you are even willing to admit to considering. I’m not saying everyone does it or trying to justify what was done, just pointing out that the prevalent perception is that it is closer to the norm than being a completely ethical and legit program is, so it’s just not that shocking or interesting to those who aren’t invested in it in some way.

    But, again, whatever. Like I said, if it doesn’t support the narrative you like it has to be bullshit.

  33. You clearly haven’t been paying attention to the story about Willingham. She still stands by what she said and did 100%. The ONLY people who thinks that what she did was unethical was UNX about two weeks ago. Highly ironic UNX calling anyone else unethical. I’d be interested in knowing what YOU think is unethical about being asked to turn over names attached to the files she had then being punished for doing that very thing. Since just plain calling her a liar they moved to discredit her work and suspend her research as soon as they could.

    What did it take for UNX to finally admit fraud? How many internal investigations have they held? How many times have they hid behind FERPA hiding information that would bring more information out? Do you honest to god think just TWO people orchestrated all of this since the mid nineties? Do you really think those fake classes weren’t there to benefit athletes, even after we’ve seen the numbers (and some of their transcripts)?

    And how in the world do you think UNX has ALREADY been punished for all this? Please tell me it’s because your football team got put on probation for receiving illegal benefits two years ago. If so, LOL at that.

    I don’t care if you think I’m bitter Statefan. I think your a butthurt UNXfan. None of that matters.

    The truth is is that your arguments of the past three years are all wrong. This isn’t just a football issue, the UNX investigations didn’t find out anything and my favorite, “you’re just a hater” really is amusing.

  34. So it matters to you if Willingham stands by what she did, but not if UNC stands by their statements? TOTALLY MAKES ALL OF THE FUCKING SENSE.

    Again, I know it doesn’t support your narrative, but one of her MAIN COLLABORATORS discredited her. The Independent Review Board halted her study and rebuked her for her breach of ethics. The same professors who were petitioning UNC to come clean said that Willingham was wrong to go about it the way she did and backed up the breach of ethics claims. That’s not UNC spin, fT; that’s what happens when someone is overzealous and steps outside of their prescribed boundaries to make data fit their theories.

    So because UNC acted unethically they are now expected to simply allow others to act unethically when attempting to discredit them? Totally reasonable. Do you seriously not see how ridiculous you sound?

    She was suspended for turning over the names BECAUSE SHE WASN’T SUPPOSED TO HAVE THE FUCKING NAMES IN THE FIRST PLACE. UNC didn’t suspend her research, the Independent Review Board did (and it’s made up of UNC staff, not BOG or BOT members).

    Fuck everything else you said. It’s just further proving my point for me. Be bitter, little bitter man. You’re goddamned great at it.

    You seriously haven’t paid a lick of attention to anything I’ve said about this over the last two years. You see my avatar and respond to what you think I think. That’s sadly stupid for a guy like you.

  35. LOL. Thank you for showing me in detail how Mary has been SOOOO unethical for keeping names on papers! All that research that she has been trying to get UNX to notice since 2012 should just be thrown away now! She is an obvious liar.

    …and yes, UNX didn’t suspend her research, it was actually just the UNX staff members. I get it!

    Don’t try and pretend I didn’t see you arguing with dan all those times about how basketball was involved in this as well. You blamed EVERYTHING on Butch back then. Now we have a direct link to it from an academic adviser from UNX, WITH DATA but NO she’s just a liar who apparently likes death threats and demotions.

    …and don’t try and pretend I didn’t see you arguing the ol’ “how do you know UNX hasn’t already found that out and reported it, or taken care of it” line through all it’s “investigations”.

    …and don’t try and pretend you haven’t said “you’re just bitter Statefan who wants to see UNX burn to the ground”, FROM DAY 1! You were never interested in seeing how far this scandal went and ALWAYS thought PP was just wasting their time being haters.

    You will always avoid the questions I ask, because you know how weak UNX’s defense position in all this is.

  36. According to the IRB, Willingham was only given permission to do the research in the first place after making promises that nobody who conducted the research would know the names of their subjects. Her own colleagues have noted how unethical it was. (but you don’t give a shit about how she got the information, or if going about it the way she did shows evidence of bias or not, because you want UNC to burn)

    You’re cool with UNC staff members coming out publicly against the Athletic Department and what it has done but when those same staff members speak out against a piece of “evidence” you really like they are obviously part of the “conspiracy”. (burn UNC burn)

    I’m not pretending I didn’t say that to dan TWO YEARS AGO. I did. Then more info came out and, like I have since this started, I looked at it objectively and adjusted my stance because I was wrong. See, that’s what rational people do. As opposed to bitter little men who just grab on to their initial reaction and hold it NO. MATTER. WHAT. (I bet you’ve already bought your lighter fluid, torches, and pitchforks)

    You are a bitter hater. You prove repeatedly by NOT being interested in actual justice or truth but simply wanting UNC to drop banners and admit to everything anyone accuses them of. (burn it down, fT)

    I haven’t avoided any questions. In fact, you and I going back and forth about this makes up more than 80% of all content on this blog in the last 6 months. But, you know, that doesn’t support your narrative so just ignore it. (POOKIE! LET’S BURN THIS MOTHERFUCKER DOWN, POOKIE!!)

  37. I’m curious to know what exactly you are saying you were wrong about. What opinions have changed? I seemed to have missed all that.

    The difference with Mary W and the rest of the UNX staff is that she has come out and said pretty much exactly what we have known already for the last couple of years. Only complete dolts were denying that athletes were benefiting from these fake courses and that it UNX had been getting away with it for YEARS.

    They admitted they cheated and lied about it only after all this mess and AFTER they have continuously bragged for decades about “graduation rates”. Roy goes on record and loves to tell how one of his assistants stays on the players about their classes but when shit comes up, “oh wiat, we don’t have anything to do with academics”. So yeah, sorry if I don’t give them ANY benefit of the doubt when they could have taken care of this years ago, had they only had any honest and real investigating.

    ..and yeah, I want UNX to take a punishment. That’s what happens when you cheat, but they can try and be honest for once too. So sure, I find it only obvious that anyone would take Mary W’s word over UNX’. It only fits the pattern over the last 3 years.

    I don’t know if Dr. N will ever take the stand or take some kind of plea deal. But I would be extremely interested in what he has to say about him and his one friend being charged as the only frauds in this WHOLE academic scandal. You don’t really believe that either do you?

  38. You boys are wearing me out on this. And I think that you’re missing the elephant in the room. Two questions: Why is it that the NCAA clearly wants NO part of this? And how is it that athletes are making it up through middle and high school without being able to read or read above a 4th grade level?
    Those are the questions you should be addressing because I posit that the athletes at UNC that were (allegedly) deficient are but the very tip of the iceberg of national collegiate athletics. The easy to pass classes that apparently got out of control at Carolina are most likely in every single big time athletic school in the country.
    Why??? Because the money in collegiate athletics is totally out of hand and the academic side no longer controls their athletic programs. That is what Bill Friday warned us about 20 years or so ago. A similar warning to what Ike gave in 1960 about the military/industrial complex. Both are so tied up in the money being made, that everybody concerned turns a blind eye to improprieties that go on to keep the elite athletes eligible and the pentagon buying continually more exotic and costly weapons systems.
    I only make that comparison because it’s one that I can think of offhand where they are so similar in that the money drives all.

  39. ^more of “everybody does it” talk.

    3. How are they getting into UNX
    4. How are most of them graduating from UNX?

    Anyway, I believe the “couldn’t read above a 4th grade level” was an outlier and just a good portion could only read BETWEEN a 4th and 8th grade level.

    Convenient how we all need to pay attention now about big money with college athletics after UNX gets busted. Sure this scandal has uncovered some ugly truths…at UNX.

  40. I didn’t jump in this for so long because I look at it as way more complicated both at UNC and nationally than the little back and forth between you and spp.
    I’ve said in this blog before that the struggle to get the African American studies program at Carolina took years…I remember most of it and it was a hard won victory to get it. I think most of the easy classes IN THAT PROGRAM were to draw students, not just athletes, in to fill seats. That’s been my take all along on AA Studies at Carolina and those were far and away where we’ve found a lot of athletes gravitated with the rest of the student body. Take most of AAStudies out of it, and the problem seems a lot smaller.
    I’m not playing the all the other schools do it card so much as asking and then answering the question: why isn’t the NCAA anywhere near this? And my answer is that to keep the collegiate athletic money flowing, you need elite athletes and there are a finite number of elite athletes who are “college material” and way more need than those numbers can provide. I think this type of thing uncovered at Carolina is systemic in college athletics. Why do you think Willingham is encouraging other collegiate tutors to come forward? She knows this, too.

  41. “I think most of the easy classes IN THAT PROGRAM were to draw students, not just athletes, in to fill seats.”

    …These aren’t “easy” classes we are talking about. It’s the fake. 200 of them. 500 unauthorized grade changes as well.

    “we’ve found a lot of athletes gravitated with the rest of the student body.”

    …and apparently they did very well at that. The ratio of athletes to the rest of the students in these “courses” was grossly enlarged to the actual ratio of athletes to non-athletes in the school as a whole. Wonder how that happened?

    As far as the NCAA is concerned, well see if they jump in soon. The heat is on them too. They were asked by CNN today (or yesterday) if they will act after UNX finally admitted the broad fraudulent activity that has happened there and they had “no comment”.

  42. Again, I have my theory and you have yours and until you have something more than that, I will think mine is right.
    You should hear Bomani Jones’ rant at Woody Page on this topic (related to Northwestern U fball players looking to unionize) yesterday on “Around the Horn”. My thought that this problem is systemic and keeps the whole athletic system working from middle school to HS to college seems to be echoed by Jones and to a lesser extent Blackistone on the same show.
    As an aside, I found it telling that the two older white men (Page and Palaschky [sp?]) who have covered sports probably for 50+ years between them wanted to keep up the myth of the “student athlete” and the two younger black sports reporters are not buying it.

  43. Yeah, I’m not going to pretend to know how the NCAA works. Perhaps you’re right, but it’s all far from over anyhow.

  44. As it has been mentioned, one of the problems UNC faces is the “Carolina Way” which has been beaten over everyone’s heads forever. The whole “we win without cheating” BS that all non-UNC fans have had to hear for decades. When you point the finger at everyone else and turn your nose up like your shit doesn’t stink, you better not clog the commode. Just saying.

    And I love how “unethical” Willingham is/was. Like whether or not she is ethical in this changes the facts and absolves UNC from what it has done to not only keep players eligible, but graduate students who have no business being called alumni.

    This whole thing stinks from the bottom to the top, and as Tacos eluded to, UNC better hope that McNulty and Greggs don’t get Dr. N to flip. Just saying.

    Carry on

  45. “I’m curious to know what exactly you are saying you were wrong about.”

    Had you actually paid attention this wouldn’t be necessary. I’ll simply start with the fact that I was a BGDD supporter at first and then I learned more and wanted him off of campus immediately. I even coined BGDD to replace BMFD, because goddamn him. I’ve continually reconsidered my position as new information has come out. Because that’s how rational people act. You wouldn’t know anything about that, though.

    “The difference with Mary W and the rest of the UNX staff is that she has come out and said pretty much exactly what we have known already for the last couple of years.”

    You mean you like her because she’s said what you wanted to hear? No shit? That’s been exactly my point, but more on this later.

    “So sure, I find it only obvious that anyone would take Mary W’s word over UNX’. It only fits the pattern over the last 3 years.”

    I don’t disagree with this, UNTIL she is proven to be not so trustworthy. Maybe by violating ethics guidelines or some such. Hhhmmmm…

    “I don’t know if Dr. N will ever take the stand or take some kind of plea deal. But I would be extremely interested in what he has to say about him and his one friend being charged as the only frauds in this WHOLE academic scandal.”

    So far. The only people charged so far. More on this later, too.

    “^more of “everybody does it” talk.”

    If you don’t think gsp’s questioning of how those athletes graduate middle and high school only being able to read between a fourth and eighth grade level is valid then you’re a fool. If you think UNC is the only school in America to admit and push through people who aren’t smart enough to be there you’re an even bigger fool.

    “As far as the NCAA is concerned, well see if they jump in soon.”

    Hold your breath. You guys keep wanting them to come back for more and they haven’t even shown the slightest inclination to do so.

    “And I love how “unethical” Willingham is/was. Like whether or not she is ethical in this changes the facts and absolves UNC from what it has done to not only keep players eligible, but graduate students who have no business being called alumni.”

    Well goddamn. If you’re going to say there is no reason to trust UNC after it comes out that they’ve skewed facts and lied don’t you think you should hold Willingham top the same standard? No, of course you don’t. Because what she says supports your narrative. You guys are so transparent that it’s sad. Keep proving the point for me though. (Here’s the more) You guys like what Willingham said because it fits in EXACTLY with what you have “known” for years. You don’t think that maybe biases your opinion a little bit? You don’t think that it’s beyond the realm of possibility that she maybe has heard what you guys have been pushing for years and then tailored her info to garner supporters from your camp because you’re easily led by your noses when it comes to this shit and she knew she would need support? Now, I’m not saying that’s what happened, but to dismiss it as irrational fantasy out of hand is stupid.

    “This whole thing stinks from the bottom to the top, and as Tacos eluded to, UNC better hope that McNulty and Greggs don’t get Dr. N to flip. Just saying.”

    Since this whole thing started you guys have said “just wait until so-and-so flips, THEN we’ll get all of the info!” Well nobody, not one damn person, has “flipped” yet. Not Titties Austin, not PJ, not Wiley, not Prof N, not Butch, not One. Single. Fucking. Person. Does that not tell you something? No, of course not. Your mind is made up. Screw the facts, you “all know what happened”. GTFOWTS.

    As to the “Carolina Way” being beaten over your head, what’s wrong with pointing to the person who dropped you the dime and hustling non-stop? With getting back on D? With diving on the floor for loose balls? The “Carolina Way” was a term Dean came up with to describe how his basketball players played, not to encompass the student-athlete’s entire experience at UNC. Don’t get pissy with us because some idiots developed a popular public relations campaign around it and you fools bought it hook, line, and sinker. That’s on you for not knowing what the “Carolina Way” actually was, not on us for not correcting you. Again, GTFOHWTS.

  46. LOL BUTCH??? That’s your example for showing me you’ve “reconsidered and changed your mind???? You blamed the WHOLE thing on him. He took poor little UNX, who was “clean for decades” and ruined their reputation! LOL. Well now we see that was all bullshit.

    I don’t need to reconsider my position. I haven’t been wrong about ANYTHING. I did consider your alternate Mary W stance for all of two seconds before I realized how stupid you would have to be to believe it.

    You have been gradually dragged kicking and screaming into reality because I don’t really think you are this naive. You are a proud UNXfan. I can understand that. Just get your head out of the sand, bro.

    …and LOL again at your “Carolina Way”. So it’s our fault for UNX turning it into a PR campaign and proudly boasting about it ALL THE TIME. Now we can call them out on it because it was really just a basketball thing all along. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

    How do you not see that everything you write is a weak and defensive when backing UNX?

  47. It is all Butch’s fault. Just like I told you guys YEARS ago (at the time, I was told I was just a black-helicopter, conspiracy-believing ABC’er, Butch had football players put into the classes that had been propping up the basketball program for years. Turns out, “years” should have been “decades”. I underestimated a bit.

  48. Pat, you are embarrassing yourself and you don’t even realize it. “some idiots developed a popular public relations campaign around it and you fools bought it hook, line, and sinker. That’s on you for not knowing what the “Carolina Way” actually was, not on us for not correcting you.” WTF are you talking about? “Some idiots” would be UNF’ngC, right? You really just need to push away from the keyboard. No one is buying any of the shit you are selling. No. Bod. Dee.

    gs is right about the concerns on how these kids get that far to begin with at their reading levels, but that is a different issue. The issue at hand is UNC not only opening the doors to them, but making it possible for them to not only stay eligible but graduate.

  49. Oh, and according to a lot of UNC fans, Butch was done wrong and knew nothing. He was cleared by the NCAA and the *cough* investigation, after all. How could he not have a job yet?

  50. This Carolina Way has been blown way out of proportion by angry State fans as some sort of payback. That is all this about is payback because State has been wronged forever. Wronged about Jimmy V, the local media and this Carolina Way.

    I’ve been a UNC fan forever, have family and friends that went to UNC. The first I ever heard of “The Carolina Way” was the title of Dean’s book about his coaching philosophy. I’ve never heard any UNC fan sit and talk about this “Carolina Way” that you all say has been drummed into peoples heads for decades. If it did become a PR campaign by UNC, then so what, I’ve never heard it used to signify some superiority and being better than everybody else. Its a PR campaign that has bothered you all for decades. That is all it boils down to.

    “Our State” is a PR campaign too.

    Carry on

  51. “LOL BUTCH??? That’s your example for showing me you’ve “reconsidered and changed your mind???? You blamed the WHOLE thing on him. He took poor little UNX, who was “clean for decades” and ruined their reputation! LOL. Well now we see that was all bullshit.”

    You silly bastard go back and read what I said. Stop going a sentence or two in and read the whole thing. That was the first time I took new facts into consideration and changed my stance; not the only time.

    “I don’t need to reconsider my position. I haven’t been wrong about ANYTHING.”

    Just… Wow. Again, THIS IS MY POINT EXACTLY.

    Sweet ‘LOL’ chain at the end though. Did your 9-year-old sister teach you that?

    “WTF are you talking about? “Some idiots” would be UNF’ngC, right? You really just need to push away from the keyboard. No one is buying any of the shit you are selling. No. Bod. Dee.”

    Champs, it’s funny that nobody is buying that when it’s actually the same thing being said on local sports radio. But you’re up there with the Amish, so you wouldn’t know.

    “gs is right about the concerns on how these kids get that far to begin with at their reading levels, but that is a different issue. The issue at hand is UNC not only opening the doors to them, but making it possible for them to not only stay eligible but graduate.”

    So UNC is the only team that does this? I’m not trying to deflect here, I want your honest answer. You guys keep saying “OH MAH GWAD! HERE WE GO WITH MORE OF THE ‘EVERYBODY IS DOING IT’ BULLSHIT!”, but you admit that there should be concerns that kids get that far in the first place. But it’s only the kids UNC signs, no other colleges have the same issues, right? This isn’t just a UNC thing, UNC just got caught. Bitch about that statement all you want, the truth is the truth.

    “Oh, and according to a lot of UNC fans, Butch was done wrong and knew nothing. He was cleared by the NCAA and the *cough* investigation, after all. How could he not have a job yet?”

    What does that have to do with me? According to a lot of State fans Jimmy V never did anything wrong and pissed excellence his whole life. It doesn’t make it right or true.

    So, who’s ‘flipping’ next, guys? When does the NCAA get back on campus?

    Look, we’re not going to see eye-to-eye on this. I’m positive that you guys are entirely too biased by years and years of bitterness towards both UNC and its fans to be rational about this. You’re convinced that I’m too biased by a lifetime of being a UNC fan to look at it reasonably. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

  52. “This Carolina Way has been blown way out of proportion by angry State fans as some sort of payback. That is all this about is payback because State has been wronged forever. Wronged about Jimmy V, the local media and this Carolina Way.

    I’ve been a UNC fan forever, have family and friends that went to UNC. The first I ever heard of “The Carolina Way” was the title of Dean’s book about his coaching philosophy. I’ve never heard any UNC fan sit and talk about this “Carolina Way” that you all say has been drummed into peoples heads for decades. If it did become a PR campaign, then so what, I’ve never heard it used to signify some superiority and being better than everybody else. Its a PR campaign that has bothered you all for decades. That is all it boils down to.

    “Our State” is a PR campaign too.

    Carry on”

    This was so succinctly spot on that it needed to be repeated.

  53. Pretty much what I said.

    CHAPEL HILL, N.C. — Play hard.

    Play smart.

    Play together.

    The Carolina Way.

    It’s supposed to be that simple.

    The Carolina Way, from its inception, was legendary North Carolina coach Dean Smith’s philosophy — his approach to playing basketball.

  54. No I read the whole thing. I read that article before you linked it.

    That is how I first heard about it, Dean’s book. Did it change from its origin, yes. But still, I dont go around talking about The Carolina Way, or anyone I know does that either.

    The only people I hear talking about it are State fans

  55. Nino, to be honest, you are not one of the UNC fans who behave that way and have always come off as stand up and honest. You are not what I would call a “typical” UNC fan by any means.

  56. Well then you are not a “typical” state fan.

    Because most want UNC death-penalized, banners removed,think they have cheated forever and no matter what happens, it wont be enough. If someone doesn’t “flip” to the NCAA *cough* investigation, it is because UNC paid them off, or had them silenced, or sent them to Siberia. etc. etc…

  57. Here’s the simplest way to sum things up.

    Does anyone think that these easy classes “just happened”? Or do they think that they were set up on purpose?

    If you think they just happened to evolve, then you’ll never be convinced that UNC did anything all that wrong. You think a couple of rogue individuals went on their own and decided to create a system to keep athletes eligible and that those athletes just happened to find those classes.

    If you think that they happened as part of a designed system to help keep athletes eligible who a) probably shouldn’t have been in college and b) would have failed out in even the easiest of real classes then you’ll never be convinced that UNC has looked hard enough to find out what has been going on. The reason you’ll think that is because if this is what you think happened then you also think that everybody already knew what was going on. The guy who helped launch it is now the ACC commissioner, so it’s not like he would be all that interested in revealing (not finding, because in this scenario he already knows) the truth.

    Obviously, I think the second scenario is closer to the truth.

  58. pat, it’s like you want me to admit to having to change my mind with the new coming information. I haven’t because all of it reassures me that all your ,”Well, you guys just can’t believe it happened this way because you just want unx to BURN” alternative circumstances have all been wrong, and pretty naive to believe in the first place.

    …and your one to talk about typing as a 9 year old girl, Mr. “SCOREBOARD”

    LOL

    Nino sure, there’s a lot of Statefan who will think whatever happens to unx won’t be enough. But how bout we start with SOMETHING. We finally get some kind of recognition of fault (after three years of dodging and the national media getting involved). unx could’ve gotten this all out the way a long time ago, but they have stonewalled every step of the way.

  59. “But how bout we start with SOMETHING.”

    You mean like the three years probation, banning from the 2012 postseason, vacating wins, scholarship reductions.

    “The university did a great job of investigating it,” infractions committee chairman Britton Banowsky said in a teleconference with reporters. “They tried to get to the truth, and that’s not always the case, but in this case it was clear that they did. … Nevertheless, it was a serious case and we had aggravating factors.”

    But again, your narrative says UNC hasn’t done anything at all and hasnt been punished at all. Like I said, it will never be enough for state fans.

    UNC has NOT handled this entire situation well at all, but a CNN report didnt suddenly just change everything.

  60. Dan, I’ll answer your question on what I “think” happened at UNC. I think that the courses evolved. There were easy courses that “all the football players took” (what students told you) when I was in school there, one being Portugese which I happened to enroll in. It was chock full of athletes, but it was too hard for me–seems that I’m not very good at foreign languages and I dropped it. My roommate stayed in it and he got a pretty good grade as I recall and so did the athletes according to him.
    I think that the easy and fraudulent classes like we’re discussing today began with the advent of the African American Studies program for the reasons that I already enunciated.
    The thing about a college campus, the “crip” courses are no secret to anybody so there are a lot of students and probably a higher percentage of athletes who gravitate to them.
    Apparently, since the early 2000′s some people (BGDD) seem to have taken this thing to the next level at Carolina. And I hate it and it has tarnished the University. But again, I’ll say that I think that it’s done to try to stay competitive with other schools in athletics.
    Just a question to throw out there: do you think this scandal at UNC is worse than the research scandal at NCSU where a chemistry professor has been blowing the whistle for 7 years on research done where 3 researchers apparently falsified their work to keep getting grants and other research funds? Now the Feds are looking into that one.
    The bottom line just like the athletics, these things are all rooted in MONEY.

  61. Nino….what? Dude the NCAA ruled on the impermissible benefits and lack of oversight to football players. That was it. It NEVER has ruled on the academic scandal, which is what is gaining all this national attention. How do you not get that?

  62. Tacos, hold your breath waiting for the NCAA on this…or do something constructive like challenging the NCSU Administration to do something about fraudulent research.

  63. The NCST Way: deny any and all improprieties forever; blame it on “the conspiracy”, or ignore it altogether. UNLESS IT’S HAPPENING AT UNC; THEN BURN THAT MOTHERFUCKER DOWN!

  64. Is there an organization whose purpose is to oversee that research? Is that organization and/or NCSU leaving it up to the researcher to determine whether or not his research was a fraud?

    The NCAA’s stance on this academic situation, so far, has relied on UNC’s word that everything just happened and wasn’t athletics-driven. Dan Kane has published e-mails that show that assertion to be false.

  65. Nobody really cares about chemistry research. Unless they were making blue meth.

    Tacos, my point was you claimed UNC has not been punished at all. That is false. They haven’t been punished on what you want them to be punished on, also if they do, it probably won’t be good enough for you guys. And all of this has got national attention.

    Funny to me how Statefan worships the altar of Dan Kane, after saying for years/decades that the media favored UNC and didn’t cover the story and other nonsense.

  66. Nino, the punishment the NCAA placed the football team on has got nothing to do with any of this. Your point is irrelevant. You may as well bring up Frank McGuire’s 1960 basketball teams probation and use that to say that UNX has been “punished” and give Statefan shit about not thinking it was “enough” for this completely different situation.

    So like I have said, they have not been punished for anything pertaining to the academic scandal when there is plenty of circumstantial evidence for the NCAA to AT LEAST begin an investigation.

    Who else is going to have to come out and state the obvious? What, is this Levine woman out to get UNX as well? I guess she’s just pissed UNX didn’t give her two Thomas Jefferson Awards? Her email spells out exactly what everyone who isn’t ignoring reality already knew…years ago.

    …and nino, I LOL at you thinking it’s funny Statefan “worships” Dan Kane and using him as the one example of the media. Hmmm, let’s see how long it took ANYONE else to catch on to this story…looking like some other outlets came around…idk…somewhere around…A COUPLE YEARS. Oh, and still waiting on WRAL. Perhaps they are too busy covering Erik Leak? ‘Bout time we get an update on that huge story. LOL.

  67. …oh and speaking of blue meth, my GF just bought me the final season of BB and we are pacing ourselves. Only got 5 episodes left. A piece of me will die when I finish it.

  68. Tacos you win. All of what i said is irrelevant. Let me throw in a LOL.

    Where do you think the academic scandal originated from? It does have plenty to do with the football team and NCAA punishment.

    I mentioned Dan Kane because he was the one example mentioned (by a statefan) in an earlier comment. Yes, he has done a great job but it hasnt been ignored as you like to claim by everyone else.

    saw this from 2012 but you’re right nobody else has “caught on”
    http://www.wral.com/news/local/wral_investigates/story/11402206/

    statefan still bitches about coverage of Jimmy V, that was almost 30 years ago. Its part of the media c-o-n spiracy against NCSU.

  69. Wife is also on the final season of BB. Ive seen the entire series but have been watching it all over again.

  70. I’ll throw you as many LOL’s you want, brah. Not everything you said was irrelevant. Just your example. The academic scandal originated from a PP poster discovering plagiarism on McAdoo’s paper that was passed by everyone at UNX and the NCAA. That is where we first encountered the AFAM sham that UNX just admitted to and the NCAA refuses to acknowledge now. We knew of tutor-gate, but that was always wrapped up with impermissible benefits to only the football team and Butch Davis. The only thing connecting the two scandals is relative time and a rival fan’s interest.

    …and I guess I was wrong about WRAL. I wonder how I could have forgotten about that one article in 2012 from all their groundbreaking work on the issue since then?

    I can’t comment on the Jimmy V thing. I was too young and don’t know anything about it except for this “bitching” you are talking about from Statefan. But it still goes the same way with UNXfan claiming that first the N&O JUST wanted to sell papers and that everyone who has reported on it since then is just lying or exaggerating this, “but…but everybody does this” story.

  71. …I when I say the only thing connecting the two scandals is relative time and a rival fan’s interest, I mean from the NCAA’s point of view.

    Of course it is all really connected.

  72. brah?

    anyway. Nobody likes the media if they report or write stories about their beloved school that ____fan roots for.

    Statefan still complains about the coverage of Jimmy V, thinks there is some local media secret meetings to try and bring down the program, hates the N&O, WRAL is just full of UNC grads, doesnt cover the UNC scandal enough, focuses on Duke and UNC too much and Joe Ovies is a UNC homer, etc…

    UNCfan hates Dan Kane, hates the N&O, thinks they’re just trying to sell papers, thinks WRAL is biased against them and Joe Ovies is a State grad/homer, etc..

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