Shadrach Thornton – Why? Just why?

One of the lone bright spots for the NC State football team this year was the play of one Shadrach Thornton.  Unfortunately, the running back is once again facing legal issues.  Already having one assault charge deferred back in June, Thornton could be in very hot water with a new sexual assault charge possibly pending.  No details have been released in regards to the new investigation, but when the Po-Po arrived at his College Inn apartment they found weed in his room, as well as in the common area and in J.J. Jones room.  Jones, who has already announced that he is transferring, also had a bottle of Naproxen, which is basically a prescription version of Aleve.  Jones, however, was not the name on the label.

Based on the weed alone, you can bet your sweet ass that Thornton’s time at NC State is finished.  He will absolutely be facing those charges from back in June now, and NC State is not the kind of institution that looks kindly on its players hitting or abusing women.  

I’m not going to kill either guy for smoking dope.  When you are on the football team though, and getting a free education (whether you are taking advantage of it or not) you just have to know better.  While Thornton’s play on the field will be missed, this type of off-field shenanigans will not be.  I have zero tolerance for anyone who lays a hand on a woman, and even less if there is any form of sexual assault involved.  IF he is guilty, I hope he rots down Western Boulevard for a while.

146 thoughts on “Shadrach Thornton – Why? Just why?

  1. Get rid of him. He’s a moron. Obviously someone who just doesn’t get it.

    NCSU isn’t UNX. They should cut him loose.

  2. Tacos, I agree 100%. “NCSU isn’t UNX”. Never will be, NCSU is just a satellite campus for the nation’s first public university. We love our little sister schools.

  3. “NCSU is just a satellite campus for the nation’s first public university.”

    lol. I didn’t know UGa claimed NCSU as a satellite school.

    …yet another meaningless lie UNXfan have arrogantly spread over the years…

  4. Or is it William & Mary, fT? All three can lay a portion of a legitimate claim to that title. UGa had a charter to function as a public school first, W&M was founded first, UNC actually opened its doors to the public first.

    So eat a dick, slappy.

    /history lesson

  5. Founded in 1785 as the United States’s first state-chartered university, it is the oldest and largest of Georgia’s institutions of higher learning and along with the College of William and Mary and the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill claims the title of the oldest public university in the United States.

  6. Uhh, nope Champs. Lowe resigned in good standing with the University. Maybe DY wanted him out, but she paid him his money because he didn’t do anything that she felt she could fire him with cause for.

    Also, it was a statement and not question.

    Lastly, bringing them in is bringing them in. You don’t get to say “even after ALL of the investigating we did into these guys and their backgrounds we brought in some dirt bags. But once they got caught doing some dirt bag shit we bounced them right away… wait,what? You mean we didn’t bounce them the first time they got caught? Okay, well, once it became apparent they weren’t going to do their dirt-baggery quietly we bounced them.” Lowe is now a two time loser on tax evasion. Thorton has now **allegedly** laid his hands on a woman twice. Sweezy was a multiple time loser. Greene was a multiple time loser. That’s just off the top of my head and in the last 4-5 years. Get the fuck over yourselves; your institution may be a little cleaner than UNC right now, but you have zero claim to any kind of moral superiority.

  7. “/history lesson”

    lol. yeah I know how type wikipedia.com too, pat. Point stands. UGa was the first. You may eat it.

    …and wilf like pat mentioned, they all claim “the oldest public university”. UGa just doesn’t proclaim it as arrogantly or annoyingly as UNX.

    “your institution may be a little cleaner than UNC right now, but you have zero claim to any kind of moral superiority.”

    A LITTLE cleaner??? LOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOOLOLers…

  8. A history lesson is a history lesson regardless its origins. But just for your edification:

    http://blog.allentate.com/2012/05/08/who-has-the-oldest-public-university-in-the-united-states/

    That right thurrr is the source of my information. Wiki backed it up though.

    The reason UGa doesn’t proclaim it as “arrogantly or annoyingly” is that their claim to it is somewhat tenuous. UNC graduated students (first class graduated in 1798) before UGa even admitted any (first students admitted in 1801).

  9. So, there is an argument between the state of Georgia and the state of North Carolina over who opened the first public university… and a NORTH CAROLINA State fan is siding with Georgia so he can get in a dig at UNC… classic hatorade…

    Second, for Georgia to say they should win this argument because they signed a piece of paper first while North Carolina actually built and opened their university first is… what was that term Tacos? Oh yeah — “weak sauce”.

  10. A) I can’t believe you State fans let little d beat y’all to that.

    B) It was pretty funny, little d. Well done.

  11. Also, we don’t claim any moral superiority. We didn’t tout our “Carolina Way” or anything. We have taken our lumps and kept going. You sound like a 6 year old who got caught doing something and immediately pulled the “well XYZ did this” card. Stop being so hateful and accept that your boys get extra mud because of how you looked down on everyone else since, well, apparently since 1785.

    Carry on.

  12. I never said UNC has more of a claim to moral superiority than NCST, Champs. I just said you State fans are completely full of shit.

    However, State fans throwing around words like ‘arrogance’ and ‘annoying’ when talking about UNC fans is the very apex of hypocrisy. But, you know, do you or whatever.

  13. No, Pat, we know our shit stinks. We don’t go around touting the “NC State Way” or anything. You are barking up the wrong tree, little doggy.

  14. Yep. Wrong tree entirely. Because arrogant assholes always jump at the chance to label themselves as arrogant assholes.

    Again, it’s cool. Everybody else in the world can see what dipshits y’all are when it comes to the subject of anything UNC, even if you can’t.

  15. Calling a group of people ‘arrogant assholes’ or ‘dipshits’ is not being arrogant. It’s being rude, demeaning, and insulting. I’m not really sure what your point is, other than to be blatantly obstinate.

  16. Unless you mean that saying the “Carolina Way” makes one an arrogant asshole. I never applied that definition to it, but it is enlightening to know that this is how UNC fan perceives the saying.

  17. Jesus Christ I have no idea what you’re talking about. I, me, smallandpettypat, called people arrogant assholes AND dipshits. I never once put any words in your mouth. You, Champs, AKA “Mike”, then said “I haven’t called anyone an arrogant asshole, now have I?” My reply was explaining to you the difference between being arrogant and being insulting. Because I was showing that my responses are not based in arrogance but in fact are rooted in the fact that I am an insult-throwing dickhead.

    Basically, what I’m saying is being an asshole and being an arrogant asshole are two entirely different things.

  18. No wonder this site is almost dead. It’s the same guys arguing about the same shit using the same points ad nauseum, with occasional hiatuses.

  19. smallandpettypat
    December 13, 2013 at 10:00 AM · Edit
    I never said UNC has more of a claim to moral superiority than NCST, Champs. I just said you State fans are completely full of shit.

    However, State fans throwing around words like ‘arrogance’ and ‘annoying’ when talking about UNC fans is the very apex of hypocrisy. But, you know, do you or whatever.

    You also said this, in response to me, Patrick:

    “Get the fuck over yourselves; your institution may be a little cleaner than UNC right now, but you have zero claim to any kind of moral superiority.”

    So I wonder why I would think you were talking about me, a State fan, in your comments that you now claim you did not make.

  20. “…and wilf like pat mentioned, they all claim “the oldest public university”. UGa just doesn’t proclaim it as arrogantly or annoyingly as UNX.”

    Not everything is about you, Champs. But, since we’re on the subject, what is one of the hallmarks of arrogance? Oh, yeah, narcissism.

    Also:
    “Get the fuck over yourselveS

    Aimed at all of you. Not you in specific, but every last one of you. If your mom is a State fan then it’s aimed at her too. ALL. OF. YOU.

  21. “In a rental property of the current coach”, for the sake of the facts. You wouldn’t purposefully misrepresent the facts would you, fT?

  22. What did I say that was non-factual? Roy Williams owns the house. It is Ol’ Roy’s house.

    Just because you don’t like the way it sounds, doesn’t make it a lie, brah.

  23. Perhaps some of you would like to see an interesting conversation that I found in the archives…Let’s travel back in time to January 2010, presented by the Ghost of TSB Past! BAM!

    I-Like-Tacos
    January 28, 2010 at 8:53 PM
    I don’t really care what Graves does. Kids a loser, and proved it last year. The Lawson thing didn’t bother me either. I know it pissed off some State fans, but that was in the ACCCG and State was only down by 7. He was a freshmen and I don’t think it was a “F you State” moment, just trying to show off. I would’ve done the same.

    smallandpettypat
    January 28, 2010 at 8:58 PM
    What, exactly, did Graves do last year to prove that he is a “loser”? Think hard before you answer.

    I-Like-Tacos
    January 28, 2010 at 9:15 PM
    I don’t have to think about it Pat. Graves obviously did something bad enough that made his coach say he was “failing to maintain the standards we expect of a Carolina basketball player” and suspended him for a huge part of the season.

    Graves responed, “I respect the decision Coach Williams made and apologize to him and everyone who loves Carolina basketball for putting him in that position.”

    So yeah, why would I care what a person like this does at the end of the game? He at one point didn’t care what his coach, teammates and UNX fans thought of him, and that’s what losers do….loser.

    smallandpettypat
    January 28, 2010 at 10:16 PM
    So, again, what about that proves he is a “loser”? Coach let him back on the team to be a major contributer this season. A “loser” would have been summarily bounced from the squad never to return. It’s also pretty obvious that he did care what the coach, players, and fans thought because he apologized and worked to get back in to the good graces of everyone involved. Methinks your hatred of UNX becomes more and more apparent the more you type.

    I-Like-Tacos
    January 28, 2010 at 10:26 PM
    I thought my hatred for UNX was pretty clear…oh well, I’ll try again, I think he’s a real BIG loser.

    Brian
    January 28, 2010 at 10:47 PM
    Graves is hardly a loser. He had to work hard to earn Roy’s trust back and get himself back in his good graces. Before the win over NCSU he was the only upperclassman who acted like he gave a crap on and off the court. Graves showed some maturity I did not think he had.

    I-Like-Tacos
    January 28, 2010 at 11:00 PM
    agree to disagree.

  24. Maybe it’s semantics fT. Your phrasing, to me, implies that Graves was caught in Roy’s primary residence.

    As to that conversation, fT turned out to be right. I don’t think what Brian and I said about him working to get back right with the team was wrong, though.

    But he’s proved he is a loser now. To me at least. I also don’t think that means the kid should be given up on.

  25. Cmon Tacos. You know there is a difference between “in the house of the present coach”, Roy’s house (his primary residence) and a house that he owns and was renting out. He wasn’t caught in Roy’s guest bedroom with some weed, mary jane, pot. etc..

    Nice win over Kentucky, btw.

  26. Thornton got busted with weed on top of the other shenanigans. That’s why the weed matters there. Oh, and because he is a current player. Graves isn’t on the roster, last time I checked, so really, WGAF?

  27. I completely agree with you Mike. The only reason a non-story about a former player getting busted for weed is because of where it happened. A rental property owned by Roy.

  28. It’s a story because Roy kicked him off the team for what has always been assumed was egregious pot use, then Roy gave him another chance by not only renting a house to him (at a deep discount, I’m sure) but also giving him a job with the team. Then Graves turns around and pisses it all away, basically, because he’s too damn stupid to say “do you have a warrant?”. All of that makes it a story, IMO.

  29. Will Graves is dead to me.
    OK. Not really.
    It is a sad story. Roy gives him a chance, and a second chance (that we know of) and has to remove him from the team, and is still willing to help him out. And gets kicked right in the teeth.

    It’s a shame. Not a news story.

  30. Of course this isn’t about the weed, Mike. Pat is right.

    Nino, again I ask, what did I say that wasn’t 100% true? It doesn’t matter if it isn’t where Roy takes his morning dump. Roy owns the house = Roy’s house. christ.

    It’s only an lol story for now. Concerning any deal Roy had with Graves like the good possibility that Roy let’s his former players crash for a serious discount at his crib (as pat suggested) or any other funny business that could spell trouble for Roy, I’m sure there is some PP poster that has been trying to dig it up. So we will see.

  31. Again, semantics, but when someone has more than one home there is a big difference between “a home” and “the home”.

  32. So it is a story because he was too ignorant to make them get a warrant before letting them search the house? That was pretty stupid of him, especially when he knew what he had in there. I guess they don’t teach common sense in old Nyang’Oro’s department.

    #Zing!

  33. To the Lunatic Fringe over at PackPride it’s a story because Roy is “giving impermissible benefits” to a former player and because “UNC is obviously giving the benies to Graves to make sure he keeps his mouth shut about the conspiracy”.

    To the Lunatic Fringe at IC it’s about how “those assholes over at CrackRide will grab on to anything just to make UNC look bad” and how “maybe Roy can stop worrying about Will now and start CALLING TIMEOUTS!”

    To guys like fT it’s a story because they get to spin it (while not spinning it at all, winkwinknudgenudge) that Graves was in Roy’s primary residence growing weed and pimping hoes and cooking meth and shit.

    To the media it will be a story of how Roy is too trusting and opens himself to abuse by people who have already burned him in the past.

    To me it’s a story about how some people can’t get out of their own way, regardless how many great opportunities they’re given that they maybe/probably don’t deserve. It’s a story line that hits kind of close to home. I hope the kid straightens himself out. I don’t have a problem with him smoking dope but the circumstances are just stupid and it’s most likely going to cost him dearly. Again.

  34. ^^No Mike, to put it bluntly (pun intended) this is only a story because NC State fans don’t have anything else to talk about because their football and basketball programs suck.

  35. If that dead horse could feel pain, he’d be in a world of hurt over the flogging he continues to get.

  36. Academic fraud. Hands down. There were no internet message boards for the masses or 30-second news cycle when Jimmy V cheated.

  37. “Nino, again I ask, what did I say that wasn’t 100% true? It doesn’t matter if it isn’t where Roy takes his morning dump. Roy owns the house = Roy’s house. christ.”

    Stop playing dumb Tacos, it would matter a hell of a lot more if it was the house where Roy downs his coca-colas in the mornings.

  38. Nice troll attempt, Pat, but I won’t fall for it.

    Ask us again in 24 years and we might be able to answer my question.

  39. ain’t the first time Roy’s been caught giving impermissible benefits to former players….

  40. Durham, if there is mutual consent then it is permissible.

    #Heyoooo!

    #IGotNothing

    #PatLikesToTwerkLikeAnNCStateBaseballPlayer

    #Wait

    #What?

  41. Lol Nino…I concede!

    …and pat, I haven’t spun anything. It’s just funny now because I can see just how defensive UNXfan can get over a simple term used on a blog that is viewed by 6 people.

  42. What did I say that was untrue? There was effectively no internet back then, the news cycle was much longer, and Jimmy V cheated.

  43. Idk pat, I was too young to remember the Jimmy V scandal but hasn’t the academic fraud thing at UNX trickled out more and more news over a longer period of time? If so, wouldn’t that mean that this “dead horse” been made anew more often thereby giving more chances for Statefan to keep beating?

  44. Wait…What? “impermissible benifits to FORMER players”? Really? With the exception of a cash payment on graduation day, how can any benefits to former players be impermissible?

  45. NCAA rules, I think, gs.

    You’re not supposed to give former players gifts because those gifts could, in theory, be promised to players to entice them to come to (or stay at) a certain school.

  46. There HAS to be a statute of limitations, which is why I stated the part about paying cash on graduation day. The damned NCAA has GOT to have some limitations. The most fucked up organization in the country can’t be allowed to rule over a kid, or his coach, who is a couple of years out out of school.

  47. But, didn’t Roy say he was working part-time for the basketball team and finishing his degree? Does “couple of years out of school” only apply to basketball eligibility?

  48. Ahh… with two outside shooters suspended, Roy was trying to get Graves to come back to the team and forgo the millions he would make playing in Iran. Now I see the dastardly plan.

  49. dan, even if that were true, how can anything the coach “gives” to Graves now have any consequence to the NCAA…unless the master plan Wilf uncovered is true. Who knew Roy could be so devious and dastardly??? Only to have such a great plan foiled by a dumbass who doesn’t know enough to tell the cops to go get a warrant.

  50. “how can any benefits to former players be impermissible?”

    simple….you can’t recruit players with the promise that ‘after graduation’ or ‘after their eligibility is up’, THEN you will hook them up (or have boosters do so).

    there’s a reason the NCAA rules are there. (It’s called “SEC football boosters”)

  51. I’m not saying there’s any plot. I’m just saying I think there are rules that would be against Roy giving Graves a sweetheart deal on rent.

    Whether you, me or anyone else thinks those rules are necessary doesn’t really matter.

    Do you think that a part-time video coordinator would typically live in a half-million dollar house?

  52. If there is an NCAA rule that forbids a coach giving gifts/benefits to former players, then if Roy wasn’t charging Graves market rate for the house he was breaking the rules.

    As far as “why would Roy do that?”….the answer is probably somewhere between the blue-shaded “‘Ol Roy cares too much” and the red-shaded “Graves threatened to spill the beans”.

  53. Graves played in Japan for at least two years, dan. It’s not like he’s some poor grad student who’s never had any real income.

    Also, you “think there are rules that would be against Roy giving Graves a sweetheat deal on rent”? How about a reference to the rule instead of just assuming it exists. The Lunatic Fringe is the only place I’ve heard these rumblings.

  54. dan, I get that a coach can’t promise a recruit that after graduation or when the player leaves school, he will get compensation from coach or booster. I guess it makes sense. What I want to know is, how long after a player leaves school is that in force? 6 months, a year, 5 years, 10 years, forever??? What is the damn rule?
    Finally, there has NEVER been a bonafide news item about this that Graves received a sweetheart deal on the house so all of our discussions on this item is probably moot. Still, I’d like to know what the rule is and for long. Any idea?

  55. If it’s against the rules to buy a player a suit when their eligibility expires, I find it hard to believe it wouldn’t be against the rules to let them live in a house rent-free or at a reduced rate.

    I don’t care enough to look the rule up.

    A meter reader thought the house was vacant, smelled marijuana, and called the police.

    This situation just looks peculiar, which wouldn’t be a good thing for UNC if the NCAA actually cared enough to do its job. It’s obvious that no one in Chapel Hill is willing to admit the truth.

    Roy probably rents a cheap house to a regular student, as well, so everything is OK.

  56. “A meter reader thought the house was vacant, smelled marijuana, and called the police.”

    Wait a minute? I thought you said Chapel Hill was the land of police cover ups anytime an athlete was involved? How could this happen?

    And yes Dan, Roy wanted Graves on his team so badly that he promised Graves that if he joined the team he would rent him a nice house …. after he kicked him off the team

    Makes perfect fucking sense…..

  57. The Pack Pride rumor is that UNC was/is getting close to having APR problems so UNC/Roy propped Graves up in a house & job so he could finish his degree.

    I mean…just say it loud:

    Player kicked off team.
    Player living in house owned by coach, working for team (although not found on any staff listing), going to school.
    Player still has unfettered access to Dean Dome.

  58. But you do care enough to keep arguing this point, I mistakenly thought that you’d know what the NCAA rule is and the length of time it’s in effect before going down this road. Now it just sounds more like a bunch of crackpride shit. Oh, well, carry on with it if you must.

  59. “I don’t care enough to look the rule up.”

    And yet you continue to use what you ASSume is the rule as “proof” of yet more UNC dirty dealing. Don’t worry tho; it doesn’t affect your credibility at all.

    “This situation just looks peculiar, which wouldn’t be a good thing for UNC if the NCAA actually cared enough to do its job. It’s obvious that no one in Chapel Hill is willing to admit the truth.”

    Yes dan, you should be pissed about UNC not following what you think might maybe be a rule. Totally fucking legit. Where is the Lunatic Fringe Christmas party this year?

  60. Once you are a student-athlete, you are considered a student-athlete for life.

    You are considered a Representative of Athletics Interest for life if you play a varsity sport.

    There’s nothing anywhere that I’ve seen that talks about a so-called statute of limitations.

  61. “Once you are a student-athlete, you are considered a student-athlete for life.

    You are considered a Representative of Athletics Interest for life if you play a varsity sport.”

    Is this your interpretation of the rule or the actual rule that you could, you know, link to in order to back up what most of us (I gather) assume to be complete horseshit that you just magically pulled directly from your hindquarters and then presented to us as the unassailable truth?

  62. Pat, you do understand that Jimmy V did not cheat, right? He had players that broke the rules and the NCAA deemed that Jimmy V was in the clear, but that the University as a whole was not. The way Jimmy V was dismissed still makes my stomach turn and embarrasses me.

    That 30 for 30 on the Cardiac Pack is just so tremendous. It is like The Godfather now. If it is on TV, and I am changing channels and stumble across it, the remote will be sat down. It really is that good.

    Firing Jimmy V is what put the curse on State. Not sure how it will ever be lifted at this point.

  63. Pat,

    The UNC comment is about the entire last few years. The fact that anyone in Chapel Hill claims that those classes weren’t put in place for the express purpose of getting/keeping athletes eligible is a farce and would be embarrassing to anyone with any bit of self-respect.

  64. http://www.broncoathleticassociation.com/ncaa-donor-guide/

    BOOSTERS
    Representatives of Athletics Interest
    You are a representative of athletics interest if you:

    Participate in or have been a member of any booster or alumni groups
    Make or have made a donation to any of the BSU athletic programs
    Provide or have helped to arrange employment for student-athletes
    Have been involved in promoting BSU athletics in any way
    Are the parent or legal guardian of an enrolled student-athlete
    Participated as a varsity athlete at BSU
    According to NCAA rules, once an individual has been identified as an institutional “representative of athletics interest” the individual retains that title for life.

  65. “The Pack Pride rumor is that UNC was/is getting close to having APR problems”

    Right Dan. If Roy’s only motivation here was preserving UNC APR then everything else you described makes so much more sense then doing something else like … oh i don’t know… maybe, not kicking the guy off the team in the first place…

    Yep, you got it all figured out….

  66. “Pat, you do understand that Jimmy V did not cheat, right? He had players that broke the rules and the NCAA deemed that Jimmy V was in the clear, but that the University as a whole was not.”

    Now change ‘Pat’ to ‘Champs’ and ‘Jimmy V’ to ‘BGDD’. Same statement, same validity.

    dan, so what you are saying is that every single NCAA coach who has hired an ex-player to his staff was, in fact, violating NCAA rules. Good to know.

  67. Pat, that is way off-base and you know it. Butch Davis knew what he was doing. Did he release those phone records yet? You can’t even compare the two situations. One was kids selling tickets and shoes. The other was a deep rooted system of fraud and players interacting with agents. Not even close. It baffles the mind that UNC didn’t get hammered by the NCAA, even though I know a lot of Columbia Blue Wal-Mart Gear wearing peeps think they did.

  68. Bullshit, Champs. Be honest about it or GTFO. Academics were also involved. You don’t get to say “Butch had to know about everything going on while he was HC but poor old V can’t take any responsibility whatsoever for all of the shenanigans that went on under his watch”.

    I get that V is the closest thing you guys have to a deity over there and that y’all want to protect his legacy. Rewriting history is not the way to do that.

    Lastly, there are just as many Walmart/Kmart/Target NCST fans in North Carolina as there are UNC fans. I don’t know why you assholes think you’re the only fan base in the world that can rightfully claim that every single fan either went to the school or had a relative who did. Again, get the fuck over yourselves.

  69. Why so angry all the time, Pat? When you resort to such language it only confirms that you know I am right but won’t admit it. Breathe in, breathe out. Relax a little bit over there, will you?

    Were academics an issue? Yes. Due to bad grades via shady student-athletes. Was there widespread academic fraud? Nope.

  70. Dude, just because you say I’m angry don’t think that that is actually the case. It’s like you saying “Jimmy V didn’t cheat”: it doesn’t matter how many times you repeat it, it still isn’t a truthful statement. This is the way I speak on a day-to-day basis; there are posters on here who know me personally and can confirm this. Sorry for not speaking the King’s English in a prim and proper manner so as not to offend your delicate little sensibilities.

    “Were academics an issue? Yes. Due to bad grades via shady student-athletes.”

    ORLY?! And who recruited those shady student-athletes and kept them on his team in his athletic program even while they continued to flunk classes and, in one case, not even be able to read or write? Was that, by chance, the besainted Jimmy V?

  71. Pat, when you have proof that V was encompassed in a wide-spread academic fraud scandal, come back to us. To use your phrase, until then, STFU already. And yes, Davis is directly connected. Just ask the former Ms. Wiley.

    #game
    #set
    #match

  72. Champs, when you have the same proof in regards to BGGD hit me up. Until, beat it.

    Also, hastags are about as cool as MySpace, grandpa.

  73. Actually, Champs, that would be the game you are playing.

    Couldn’t resist it.

    But seriously, you’re trying to say that BGGD did something different than V did when the actual real facts (not the inferences made by PackPride and guys on the Lunatic Fringe like dan) do not bare that out. The bottom line is that we may never know how deeply BGGD was involved in the UNC scandal, but we already know for a fact how V was involved in the shenanigans at NCST. To say they’re not similar is just plain ridiculous.

  74. Pat, V was cleared by the NCAA. Read that a few times and let it soak in. Then come back to me. I won’t make you put your tail between your legs or anything. I’m all about forgiveness.

  75. Butch Davis was never mentioned in the NCAA inquiry and had no involvement in the investigation. So, uh, what were you saying again?

  76. And BGGD was also cleared, or at least not implicated, by the NCAA. And both coaches were fired by their administration, so what is your point?

  77. Did I say he was, Pat? No, I said he was directly connected. Blake was his boy for ages. If there was nothing to hide in the phone records, why fight releasing them? Wiley? So the question is was Davis cleared or not mentioned? Two different things. This argument is pointless though. All it does is back up that after 24 years the dead horse is still getting beaten.

  78. Don’t know how hard Davis fought releasing the records, do know he dragged his feet on it and then was fired. Once that happened, and if the records were still sought, especially by news organizations, I would expect him to fight it because they were calls on his personal phone with probably a lot of, what’s the word??? PERSONAL calls that would be nobody’s damned business.
    He hasn’t gotten another job because he’s a piece of shit who took “consulting” jobs and not coaching jobs so he could still collect his severance from UNC. Plus, while he may be an excellent spotter of talent, I think his coaching skills leave a lot to be desired–see the final minutes of the bowl game versus TN. Plus he was the King of the prevent defense at Carolina–who the hell wants to hire someone who coaches like that?

  79. “Did I say he was, Pat? No, I said he was directly connected.”

    Jesus Christ, Champs. This right here is exactly what I’m talking about when I say have a little intellectual integrity. You can’t say BGGD was “directly linked” and that V is completely innocent and expect us to just say “wow, you’re right”. You’re not, and to pretend otherwise is a flat out untruth. What’s worse, you know damn good and well that it’s a flat out untruth. Either V was implicit or he was too stupid to be in his position. JUST LIKE BUTCH “GOD DAMN” DAVIS.

    “Why hasn’t Davis gotten another coaching gig if he was wrongly fired?”

    He’s getting paid by UNC until January as long as he doesn’t coach, so I imagine he’ll have a coaching gig shortly. His name was bandied about for a number of jobs recently, including Texas. He isn’t being blacklisted for being a dirtbag; he’s just not finished stealing money from UNC (because he’s a dirtbag).

  80. “Also, it should be pointed out that I didn’t bring Davis into this tit for tat.”

    “Pat, I’m just seeing you comment. Butch Davis and the gang would even laugh at your hypocritical nonsense.”

  81. gs, he used that phone for all of his work calls though. He worked for the State, technically, right? How many calls did he make from his UNC phone? Same number I did. Yet he ran a football program in this day and age without making any phone calls? This is why you don’t mix work with your personal phone calls. Once you do you open yourself up to having those looked at too. If he was smart he would have only made shady calls on his personal, but used the already paid for by UNC phone for official business.

    Almost as dumb not asking for a warrant.

  82. Well, we do have a certain former teacher who is charged with a felony, and the only recorded employment she has from a certain time frame is with the Davis family.

    Of course, I’m sure she is paying for her own attorney (one of the highest paid in the state). And I’m sure he’s only looking out for her best interests, and not those of any other interested party (or university).

    I don’t think V had any household staff involved in illegal activity. I also don’t think there were any quasi-agents on his staff.

    If guys were getting bad grades but staying on the team, that would be a sign that a) academic progress hadn’t yet become a concern for the NCAA and b) they had to have real, live classes to attend that required work.

    Oh..and the question would be whether or not Graves had any real responsibilities with his job. He’s not listed anywhere as a UNC employee. If they propped him up with a fake job, free tuition, and a free house, there is certainly an NCAA violation or two in that situation.

  83. dan, you’re killing me…an indictment is NOT a conviction. I think that the only people who are in serious danger of being convicted in this is the African Studies guy, Julius something or other, and an agent or two. Don’t think the tutor will be convicted of anything.
    I doubt Cheshire is working for anyone but the tutor because I’m sure that he takes ethics violations too seriously to be involved in a blatant conflict of interest case.
    And good luck in trying to convict UNC or Graves on those silly allegations you just brought up.
    Oh, yeah! MacDonald will be in uniform tonight against TX…about time. Now–Free PJ!

  84. The Lunatic Fringe’s heads are exploding after the info about McD’s reinstatement has been released. It’s pretty glorious.

  85. PJ is likely done at UNC.

    If Nyangoro is convicted of something, his trial will result in more problems for UNC. Bank on that one, just like the McAdoo lawsuit….the last thing UNC wants is for the professor to talk about whose orders he was following.

    As for Cheshire….we’ll just have to agree to disagree. IMO, she would have been much better off from the beginning just telling her story and getting the truth out there instead of letting herself become the ultimate UNC fall-guy.

    The players have gone on to make millions, the coaches still get their money, Baddour has retired and is getting his money, Nyangoro was allowed to retire by the university and is still getting his pension (so far)….and she’s a ~25 year old teacher that can’t keep a job because of her reputation coming out of all of this.

  86. ” PJ is likely done at UNC.

    If Nyangoro is convicted of something, his trial will result in more problems for UNC. Bank on that one, just like the McAdoo lawsuit….the last thing UNC wants is for the professor to talk about whose orders he was following.

    As for Cheshire….we’ll just have to agree to disagree. IMO, she would have been much better off from the beginning just telling her story and getting the truth out there instead of letting herself become the ultimate UNC fall-guy.

    The players have gone on to make millions, the coaches still get their money, Baddour has retired and is getting his money, Nyangoro was allowed to retire by the university and is still getting his pension (so far)….and she’s a ~25 year old teacher that can’t keep a job because of her reputation coming out of all of this.”

    ESSSSSSSplode…

  87. Sorry, I stopped reading the comments for a sec because I ran into this beauty from pat…

    “Lastly, there are just as many Walmart/Kmart/Target NCST fans in North Carolina as there are UNC fans.”

    ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAALOLOLOLAOALOHAHALOLOLOLOLHAHAHAHALOLOLOLHAHAHAHAHAHHAHLOLOLOLOOLOLOOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!

    ….c’mon pat…I mean…c’mon…….

  88. …and also…

    …it really wasn’t the evil, corrupt NCAA keeping UNX out of the loop about PJ and LMac?

    Has someone informed Dickie V and Jay Bilas before they say something stupid on national tv?

  89. Yes, fT. Your fanbase is just as full of people with no tangible attachment to the University as UNC’s in the state of NC. There are definitely more Walmarters outside of NC because, well, y’all suck at everything but bass fishing and who wants to cheer for a loser ass school?

  90. I’ve been in every little corner of this state. When I “took my sabatical” down east for a few months last year, almost exclusively the guards at the prisons and the DOT workers I rode with everyday were NCST fans. So were their families. The vast majority are not college grads.

    In the day rooms across the State where I watched most of the college football and basketball seasons last year NCST was overwhelmingly the favorite team. Do you really think all of those prisoners are NCST grads?

    Do you honestly think that yours is the only school in the world that only gets cheered for by bona fide grads? And you think UNC fans are arrogant?

    I know you guys have been repeating that bullshit about Walmarters for so long that, much like the “Jimmy V didn’t cheat” lie you tell yourselves and everyone else so often, you’re starting to believe it. unfortunately, the reality and your perception are two very, very different things.

  91. Pat, certain things stick out to State fans because it is blatant, that may not be so blatant to non-State fans. For instance, I was once at RDU and walked into a gift shop. There were two huge sections of UNC gear, one section of Duke gear (still don’t get that one), and then on the wall there was one small section SPLIT IN TWO with Wake and State gear. At RDfreakingU. I remember walking out in disgust. As a businessman I understand it, though. UNC is a national program that was really good at the right time, as was Duke. That time being when ESPN finally got it’s feet under it and took off.

    Now I see UNC stuff, and Duke stuff mind you (but not as frequently or as volumous) all the time in stores up here in PA. Every LIDS store in the country has UNC hats on the wall. You think they all have State hats?

    Fact of the matter is that UNC is a premier program with a national following. Just like the Cowboys or Yankees or Red Sox. How many people you think are State fans outside of the state of NC that don’t have ties to State?

    While we make WalMart jokes about UNC fans, it is really a backwards compliment to a degree. UNC has built up this following over the years (thank you MJ) and with its sustained success has been able to keep it going.

    Don’t confuse yourself into thinking that other teams get the same treatment though (and I’m not saying they deserve it, because you sell what sells, and let’s be frank, no one in Topeka is buying State gear but they are buying UNC gear.)

    #rantover

  92. Aren’t you in Alaska or something, fT? Why don’t you tell us about who the next Trajon Langdon is or when the next Boozer brother is graduating HS instead of trying to tell me about the state that I was born and raised in, and where I reside at this very moment in time.

  93. Mike, go back and read what I said. I was very careful to include “in the state of NC“. I even mentioned that outside of NC it’s a different story. I think the words I used were “nobody wants to cheer for a loser ass school”. I know that, outside of NC, UNC has one of the biggest shares of the apparel market of any sports team period. But here in North Carolina we are constantly bombarded with State fans who have no real ties to the school, other than a love for the team, hypocritically hollering about “those damn UNC Walmarters”.

    Honestly, State fans are those people who maybe once had a legitimate gripe but who have played the pity card so often that nobody really listens to them anymore. Now, because they’ve deafened everybody with their incessant whining, they feel that they have to ramp up the obnoxiousness to be heard. People hear you, they are simply tired of your bullshit victim complex and your batshit crazy conspiracy theories.

  94. Pat, those would indeed be hypocrites. I went to State, so I have the right to call all of them out. But as you know, I don’t truly believe that there is anything wrong with pulling for a school that you have not attended, just like I don’t see anything wrong with liking a pro team from a city that you are not from.

    The problem with your approach though, Pat, is that you seem to fly off the handle at State fans at every turn. You can’t “once have a legitimate gripe” but “whine” so much that it becomes invalid. Just because people cry about it does not make it any less correct.

  95. And also, Pat, I know what you were saying, I just started ranting in general. It happens when you can’t focus for more than 30 seconds.

  96. The gripe is no longer valid. Bitching about conspiracies invalidated it. STOP. FUCKING. WHINING.

    If State fans would stop being such insufferable hypocrites when it comes to UNC fans maybe people wouldn’t get fed up with their pansy assed whining and fly off the handle at them. Stop making excuses for your team’s shortcomings and just be better fans. Or take a long walk off a short pier. Either would be acceptable.

  97. With your logic then your gripe with State fan is no longer valid because all you do is bitch and moan and whine about State fan bitching and moaning and whining.

  98. No, that’s not how it works. When you whine about imaginary things and constantly build the real things up to be bigger and bigger than they actually are you lose your validity. I haven’t done that. Hell, if anything, I downplay just how terribly annoying and pitiful and stupid and ugly and immoral and smelly and inept you all are.

  99. #1. All you have to do is look to see that not ALL of the conspiracy talk is imaginary. Those fake classes with high percentages of athletes attending, placed there by athletic department academic advisors, who sometimes also had a hand in getting the classes onto the calendar, are not imaginary.

    #2. Given some of your posts about your whereabouts at certain points of the recent past, it seems odd that you’d call anyone “immoral”.

    #3. The difference between the “Jimmy V didn’t cheat” stance and the “Butch didn’t cheat” stance is that one school actually had a real, live investigation done that was attempting to find out everything while the other school tried to investigate as little as possible and also gave lessons to staffers on how to investigate without creating public records.

    #4. If you want me to make up something imaginary, how about this: If Chris Washburn had gone to UNC, he probably would have graduated, and if LT had gone to State, he probably would have gotten kicked out of school. Instead, 30 years later you talk guys talk about Washburn as though UNC didn’t recruit him and worship LT like he didn’t try to snort the sideline.

  100. #1. You guys backed into a “conspiracy” and now you grab on to it like it’s the last life raft on the Titanic. Meanwhile, y’all still bitch about how the Media, led by ESPN, WRAL, and the “N&Blow”, the ACC, the NCAA, and the actual State government have been propping up UNC and suppressing NCST for decades. Your crazy rantings drown out the sound of the (very) few (and far between) rational voices in your fanbase.

    #2. I smell after I work out, too, does that mean I can’t detect any other smelly bastards? Maybe my immoral life has made it pretty damn easy to identify other immoral people. But hell, that would be too logical and not a Lunatic Fringe-y enough answer for you to comprehend.

    #3. Yeah, and your investigation cleared Jimmy V even though ALL of that underhanded shit was going on in his basketball program and in his Athletic Department. BGGD’s claim to innocence is just as legit as Jimmy V’s. Sorry you guys refuse to accept that.

    #4. We worship LT’s athletic ability and accomplishments and recognize his faults. You can be an outstanding athlete and a miserable piece of shit at the same time. We know he’s a POS, but he’s our POS and we love him for that. Kind of like you guys and David Thompson.

  101. #1. The quotes shouldn’t be there.
    #2. At some point, you just shouldn’t say certain things about other people.
    #3. Who did Jimmy V hire with a reputation like John Blake? Who worked for Jimmy V’s family that was also later indicted on a felony charge? As your boy David Glenn likes to say, there’s a lot of smoke around Butch. UNC just chose not to go look for the fire….NCSU hunted and hunted for fires but didn’t find any.

  102. You’re such a mark that it makes me laugh even when I’m not around a computer. I’ll just be sitting at the bar and the thought of you marking out will pop into my head and I will laugh and laugh and laugh.

    Whatever you say, dan. Whatever you say.

    And let me just stop you right there before you bang out the “well you couldn’t answer so you must agree” response that everybody on this site knows is coming. I’m not going to go back and forth with you for hours and days and weeks on end about this stuff because we’ve already done that. Your pitbull jaw lock on your “beliefs” (and hell yes those quotations belong there, just like they did in my last post) is both admirable in it’s futility and God damn exhausting and, really, just plain boring.

  103. Pat, I’m sorry but you’re just an idiot if you think there are as many non-alumni Statefan in NC than non-alumni UNXfan. You’re an old man so I guess I can forgive your ignorance to a degree (lol). If you’re allowed, walk around a school sometime. Go the Charlotte, go to western NC and then to Wilmington.

    At least a 10:1 ratio in the urban areas….you know, where people live.

    I left Alaska btw. I’m in Utah now working at a ski resort.

  104. Pat, quite simply, when the Jimmy V/NCSU investigation was over, it was pretty much guaranteed that everything that was going on was known, and steps were taken to correct problems.

    UNC’s “investigation” (quotes have never been more warranted) does not give anything close to that impression, and it never has.

    Period.

  105. “Meanwhile, y’all still bitch about how the Media, led by ESPN, WRAL, and the “N&Blow”, the ACC, the NCAA, and the actual State government have been propping up UNC and suppressing NCST for decades.”

    This is so, so true.
    When I worked at WRAL I cant tell you how many times a Statefan would call in claiming that we were trying to “destroy NCSU athletics”. If an anchor wore a blue tie, that was some subliminal “anti-NC State” code.

    Also the UNC football scandal was being “ignored” because WRAL is in cahoots with UNC…blah, blah.
    Like Cullen Browder’s recent agent story, he was killed (even threatened) over it because he is a UNC grad, but the producer of the story, who helped with the writing and investigating, is a State grad. The majority of the people who work there are State grads. The owner is a Duke grad.

  106. fT, I’m sorry, but you’re just a complete idiot if you think I’ve never been to these places. Hell, I’ve lived in Wilmington twice. You pulled that “at least a 10:1 ratio” crap out of deeper recesses of your ass than Marky Mark and the Lunatic Bunch, nee dan, has ever explored (in his own ass, of course. I’m not suggesting you guys explore each others’ asses. That would just be crude). As I said, I spent the better part of last year Down East (Carteret, Craven, Onslow, Beaufort, Hyde, Jones, Pamlico) and overwhelmingly they are NCST fans down there. Overwhelmingly. ECU is a distant second.

    But whatever man. I’m sure it’s easier for you to tell from way out there in Alaska or Utah or Canada or wherever you are right now smoking dope, dodging the draft, and whatever else other hippie kind of shit you’re doing, what color clothes people are wearing around here. Makes perfect sense.

    You’re right, I am old. That means I’ve had more years of observing the fan bases of both teams all over North Carolina. I’m thinking my sample size is larger and thereby better than yours.

  107. Yeah, Marky Mark. We all do know exactly what was going on: Jimmy V was cheating and/or allowing those on his basketball team and in his Athletic Department to cheat. Everybody in the world but State fan knows that those are the facts. Period. You can either continue to blithely ignore them and to disseminate false info, or you can be honest and admit it. We both know what you’ll do tho.

  108. You’re just old and out of touch, pat. Hell, Like Mike said, walk into a walmart/kmart or whatever that isn’t in the heart of Raleigh and you’ll see. Know why there is more UNX gear? It’s not because UNXfan just buys more than Statefan. There’s just way more UNXfan. Now seeing as how State puts out more grads than UNX every year since forever, you tell me why this is the case.

    Stop lying and just admit I’m right.

  109. You’re dangerously close to pulling a Marky Mark and simply making shit up and then trying to tell us it’s a “fact”. Don’t be dan; you’re better than that. Be fT.

  110. ….oh pat…you’re a moron, but your my TSB moron. Thank you for contributing your voice here. I truly appreciate all the lols.

  111. fT, all joking aside, I know you don’t really believe that shit. Your 10:1 ratio is patently ludicrous and we both know it. UNC may have an in-state advantage, but the ratio is much more like 10:9. You are acting like NCST’s fanbase is the same size as Campbell’s.

  112. I just can’t honestly believe you think it’s that close. Do you hang out with anybody under the age of 30? It sucks being a kid and watching State suck at everything except XC in the 90′s. That took a HUGE hit in State’s “bandwagon/walmart” fan total.

    Even today, hen my cousin was 10 years old, switched from wanting to pull for State to UNX because he was tired of ALL his friends giving him shit. He lives in Cary.

    Perhaps we are looking from two different perspectives which is telling in our ages.

  113. Believe it. I don’t just think it, I know it’s much, much closer to my ratio than it is to yours.

    Additionally, if you’re using age as your benchmark you do realize that there are more people over 30 than there are under 30 in NC, right? The ratio of under-30 people still isn’t close to 10:1 tho. State has more than enough fans here in NC; they aren’t a minority even a little bit.

  114. Pat, you must factor into your logic the expansion of the population due to people moving to NC over the past 20 years. How many of those people do you think choose to be State fans over UNC or Duke in that time?

    Also, even if it were 10:9, the 9 is by definition a minority.

  115. I factored in that the vast majority of those transplants choose to keep cheering for whatever team they cheered for before they transplanted.

    Yes, it might be possible that State fans are technically a minority. But to say they are the 10:1 minority is crazy.

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